I recently had some very interesting (and enlightening!) interaction with a man named Josh on my AskDrBrown Facebook page. He posted a comment responding to my article called The Day of Silencing. (The article talked about the gay activist Day of Silence in our children’s schools -- April 20th this year -- and explained how opposing views were silenced.)
Here’s the dialog between Josh and me (his wife, Jessica, also had a lot of things to say -- with plenty of exclamation points! -- but I want to focus on Josh, since his comments were so revealing):
Josh: Dr. Brown, you are a bigot. No one shall judge, but God. So, take your holier than thou attitude and go elsewhere.
MLB: Josh, please explain how I am a bigot. And also, do you submit to God's standards and judgments? Thanks for your response.
MLB: Also, Josh, this is my own FB page. Where would you like me to go?
Josh: You are a bigot for judging others and trying to say what is right and what is wrong with personal choices. In the end only God will determine who was right and who was wrong. You can't deny equal rights in a country built on freedom of speech and choice.
MLB: Josh, aren't you judging me? By your definition, doesn't that make you a bigot? And if I simply state what Scripture states, how am I being a bigot? And if our country is built on freedom of speech, why are you trying to deny me my rights to freedom of speech? These are serious questions.
Josh: You sound like a cheaper version of Jerry Springer. People like you is why this country is a-- backwards. Enjoy your ignorant life.
MLB: Josh, you have made yourself entirely clear. You engage in name-calling and ugly accusations, but you have no substance to support your view. I pray that you will read God's Word, get to know Him personally, and experience His transforming love. And I do hope you will recognize the emptiness of your responses and instead base your views on truth. (Also, if you want to post here again, please refrain from using words that many of us consider to be profanity.)
* * *
If you stand up for what’s right, you’ll run into these kinds of verbal attacks, and often asking simple questions is a good way to reveal the bankruptcy of the opposing position. Truth has nothing to fear (2 Corinthians 13:8). Let’s do what is right and speak what is right and stand up for what is right and so be faithful witnesses for the Lord. And let’s pray for folks like Josh (and his wife Jessica), for moral and spiritual clarity and a real encounter with the Truth Himself.
Why is it so difficult for people like Josh to see that they have no argument? When did calling someone a bigot or intolerant become a substitute for good old fashion sound reasoning???
ReplyDeleteDr Brown.I have a blog too.How can I do what you are doing ?
Delete2 Corinthians 4:4 (NIV)
Delete4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
I have been running into the same kind of responses; all name calling and no substance. the truth is, that when it's all said and done, that's really all they got. it's so sad. true delusion has no substantive response.
ReplyDeleteYes, the argument, or lack of, tell a lot about the person. But Dr. Brown, have you ever read the comments that follow every single one of your articles on Townhall. They are hatefilled, putrid and ugly, borderline violent. And these are the people who support you. It will go on for days, they feed off of each other, almost like a competition to see who can spout the most disgusting lies. I'm not saying it's your fault, I think some of them don't even read your stuff they just see the word homosexual. But you can't point fingers at your opposition when this is happening and too my knowledge you have never addressed it.
ReplyDeleteDave, have you ever objectively read the responses/reactions of those who are liberal and gay-affirming gay advocates ? they are AT LEAST as awful as the conservative, nonchristian reactions.
Deletejust saying.
Len, no argument from me there. Sadly there is little respect on either side.
DeleteDave, your point is well taken. Here are my thoughts: 1) I don't read the great majority of comments to my articles, be it on Townhall or OneNewsNow, time constraints being one of several reasons. 2) That being said, I've read enough of the Townhall comments to understand your point but I would remind you that it is not a Christian website but rather a conservative website, so plenty of the comments there are anything but "Christian." 3) Generally speaking, we are the ones branded intolerant bigots, and we need to expose that every way we now how. From my perspective, we are not the ones branding those we differ with as hatefilled, intolerant bigots, but those charges come against us every day, hence my post here. Your thoughts?
ReplyDeleteMichael, I don't have any problems with Josh's sentiments, only that he put it rather crudely. Why do you care if you are branded an 'intolerant bigot'? Gays are branded as dirty, filthy, depraved deviants and those are the nicer descriptions. You are the one who advised people access the hate-filled Linda Havey on your Day of Silencing article. She is an intolerant bigot for sure. By advising readers to goto Mission America, you were in effect calling gays all manner of hateful things.Devin
DeleteDevin, when people call me an intolerant bigot because I speak the truth in love, I count in an honor, personally. Jesus said, "Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me." (Matt 5:11) I only posted this here to illustrate where the real bigotry is. As for Linda Harvey, I've interacted with her by phone a number of times and found her to be a caring person who loves the Lord, loves young people, and loves the homosexual community. But let's get back to me: Please give me explicit things I have said that justify Josh's descriptions, OK? Thanks!
DeleteThat conservative Christians are all branded as hateful bigots is not totally the fault of those doing the branding. Unfortunately there are those who use the name of God to justify their fleshly hatred of LGBT folk. The extreme end up being the face people see, and I'm not talking about Westboro either. They at least are honest about how they feel. It's not right but as anonymous said above, all gays are painted with the same brush and it's not a pretty one. Dr Brown I have read your book and other articles and even when I don't agree you always try to be respectful and for sure those who oppose you often are not.
DeleteDave, thanks for your gracious comments, and again, I understand your overall point, even if I don't fully agree. To be clear, though, there is more than enough mean-spirited and wrong-headed commentary from the Christian side, and I have publicly apologized for it over the years.
DeleteMichael, you are very confused as evidenced by the fact that you can show such obvious hated for gays yet term it 'love'. You love gays only if they stop being gays because you believe (wrongly) that a gay cannot be gay & xtian at the same time. You dio not seem to have any insight into your true feelings. I would have to say you are a homophobe because you fear (though you deny it) gays. Linda Harvey may seem loving and caring to you but if you read her words you'd know she is filled with hatred. You don't seem to be able to recognize your fear. Instead you get sarcastic. But underneath that is your fear. You are an old white guy who wants to go back a 1950's world (which never actually existed). Children were raped in the 1950's & women & gays were beaten behind closed doors. It was a world of white male privilege. But the world has changed for the better. And it will be better yet when gays have full equality.
DeleteAbout Josh specifically: Josh is right, you are 'holier than thou'.You pull the tired old game of when someone accuses you of being judgemental you cliam they are judging you. Thus avoiding the central question.
You have chosen which version or translation of Scripture you will believe. You have your own website so how are you being denied the freedom of speech? You can speak all you want to & Josh can speak & insist you are a bigot.
Josh was not name-calling in any serious way & his accusations were not 'ugly'. The way you denigrate gays is what's ugly. BTW I do not believ in a 'transforming love'. Josh's responses were not empty. Devin
Devin,
DeleteYou need to look deep into your own soul when it comes to confusion -- and I say that with no malice. Don't you realize that no matter what I say and no matter how I say it, if I don't affirm homosexuality and homosexual practice, you will call it "hate"? And then you claim I don't have any insight into my true feelings? Seriously? I'm "an old white guy" full of fear? Devin, aside from the fact that 57 isn't old, and that you're right about me being a white mail, your perceptions are pure fantasies. And that, in short, is the problem here: You can't realize that someone can love God, love other people, and oppose homosexual practice without that person having some kind of internal conflict and problem. Again, Devin, you need to look inside for the source of the confusion and hatred, not at me.
Re: Josh, I hold to God's standards as written in His Word (and I don't choose which translation I use; I'm a biblical scholar and study the original texts) and call all of us to live by those standards. That is not being "holier than thou."
Re: being silenced, I was speaking in the article about opposing views to homosexuality being silenced in the schools, and that is hardly in dispute.
The bottom line is that I don't denigrate gays; I oppose gay activism. Sadly, though, your one line says it all, and this is what is truly heartbreaking. You write, "I don't believe in a 'transforming love.'" Devin, this is what you need, to know God and His transforming love. When you truly meet Him and know Him, everything will change.
Michael,
DeleteThanks for responding. No, I do not live in a fantasy world but I do live in a world VERY different from yours. I do not believe in 'joy' & I do not believe in 'transformation'. You know my hypervigilant brain is burned with terror. I am change-resistant. The punishment never ends. My brain tells me the way things really are. Fundamentalists may call me filthy, depraved, deviant, even satanic but they will be dancing around in Heaven, so why would I desire to join them? Because I want to be spat on? Besides, you do not believe that I am xtian. My friends know otherwise. 'Transformation' ? 'Joy'? I do not even understand these words. Never will. But your naysaying with not separate me from Jesus & the Holy Spirit. Devin
Devin, I only referred to a fantasy world in terms of your perception of me. Reading your words, though, causes me real pain -- out of concern for you, and really, totally unrelated to the question of homosexuality. I am not calling you any names, and I'm not focused on your sexual orientation at all. I want to address something much more important: Everything in the New Testament and everything in my relationship with Jesus tells me that He is all about "transformation" and "joy." In fact, I can't imagine knowing Jesus in a genuine way and being a true Christian without transformation and joy being at the very heart of that relationship (and again, I'm not even thinking for a moment about the issue of homosexuality). So, if you care to share more, can you explain to me how you can know Jesus and the Holy Spirit without knowing transformation and true? Isn't it true that if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation (2 Cor 5:17) and that a fruit of the Spirit is joy (Gal 5:22)? I'm not trying to attack you; I'm only trying to help you.
DeleteMichael,
DeleteI know that you were not specifically calling me names. That is done constantly by people you probably admire such as Linda Harvey, Bryan Fischer, Tony Perkins, Peter LaBarbera et. al.
I was 'saved' (in the xtian sense) when I was 5. I was in no position, considering the horrors I was going thru, to experience 'joy' or 'transformation'.
I know Jesus & the Holy Spirit in a 'genuine way'. Joy & transformation are not part of my experience. I am just a lamb with a broken leg (so to speak). I was a somewhat psychotic child who was not capable of joy or transformation. I am a stunted tree with no joyful fruit. I am loved by Jesus as much as any of his flock, perhaps more so, but I am at a disadvantage. My chronic PTSD controls my brain. Jesus did not rejct me simply because I am a 'broken vessel'.
I am not capable of joy; it is a mystery to me. I am not transformed in the classic biblical sense. I could've ended up in a hospital ward for life. (I have been hospitalized 3 times in my life) & i could be a drunk or a druggie to deal with my situation, but Jesus has provided me with a good life, all things considered, despite how badly it started out. Devin
Love the way you speak Devin. What you said is so honest. Hope you don't mind if I share it with some friends who rarely see it from this vantage point.So many of us have been hurt deeply. Remember, the blood of Jesus makes peace between us and God and the Holy Spirit brings the power to live a new and better life. This is what Dr. Brown stands for. I love you man. Praying that you might have joy.
DeleteLeann,
DeleteThank you for your words of encouragement. If 'joy' should somehow show up in my life one day I would welcome it, but I'm not gonna hold my breath.
Considering my past, something I have talked with Michael about before in a different forum, I feel very satisfied with how my life is now. Michael does not believe that I can be both gay & xtian. I differ with that belief.
I do not find any comfort in God who I see as a brutal dictator of the O.T., more in line with an abusive father. I rely of Jesus & the Holy Spirit to protect me from that father.
Thanks again, Devin
Devin, you know that I care about you as an individual, and the big issue for me is not your homosexuality. It is your rejection of God, your rejection of the heavenly Father. If Jesus is your Savior, than God is your Father. If you reject God, you don't know Jesus.
DeleteI don't write these words to condemn you but rather to remind you that only God can heal and fill the massive hole that's inside your soul.
Michael,
DeleteI did nothing in particular to 'reject' God. Thru no fault of my own I was terrorized by abusive people who impressed on me their version of God who had a lot in common with Satan. At 5 yrs. old God was removed from my life. Then I underwent the torment of evangelical sunday school & it was confirmed for me just how brutal the God of the bible was.
God can be my 'father' all he wants as long as he keeps his distance. God is certainly smart enuf to be able to understand the situation.
I depend prayerfully upon Jesus & the Holy Spirit to protect me from Him. I do know Jesus & nothing you can say can make me deny him. This isn't a common situation. It is outside your experience. But it's the way it has to be.
I've done all of the 'healing' I can tolerate. I put my trust in Jesus. He will protect me from the abusive father God.
Devin,
DeleteMay God help you to see and understand. The "abusive father God" is a figment of your own imagination, most likely the product of the abusive experiences you speak of. The God and Father of the Scriptures is perfect love, and those who know Him find safety. And please understand that you simply can't throw out the Bible and disregard the words of Jesus. Jesus said that He and the Father were one (John 10:30), that He only did what He saw the Father doing (John 5:19), and that if you saw Him, you saw the Father (John 14:9-11). And He also said this: "If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me." (John 14:23-24) Please read what Jesus said carefully. These are His words, Devin, not mine, and you simply cannot separate Him from His Father. That's why I say your deepest issue is not homosexuality it is your misunderstanding and rejection of God -- which also means a rejection of Jesus, sad to say. Open your heart to Him and recognize the depth of the wound. He really can make you whole.
Michael,
DeleteFirst, thank you for your concern. But I feel you are judging me & only Jesus can do that. You are very rigid in your religious beliefs. I think that works against you. You just can't let yourself believe that I can see things differently & still be close to Jesus.
God may well 'love' me but He know why I cannot love him the way you do. Why is that a problem? You really do not understand by condition or situation. While I can accept that in one manner of speaking Jesus & God are joined, in another way they are separate entities. I cannot deal with the brutal God of the O.T.You call Him 'love'? Ask all of the children he butchered if that is true. I don't think they were feeling his 'love'. I know it is important for you to see God as 'love'. But that is unrealistic for me. You make your God small & limited if you cannot see him as dealing differently with different people. I feel that I have more faith than you do. But I am certain you do not see it that way.
Devin,
DeleteYou're quite welcome. Please tell me what you do with all the words of Jesus I quoted before? The God you are rejecting is Jesus' beloved Father.
The fact is that I'm not judging you, Jesus is, and He really wants to transform your life so that you can love and know and walk with God. Can you not see that there is something beyond you and beyond your power that He wants to do?
Michael,
DeleteWhat do I do with the words of Jesus? I acknowledge them but they do not relate specifically to my relationship with Jesus. What do you 'do with' the brutal God of the O.T. who butchers children?
God may well be Jesus' beloved father but it will not be til I get to Heaven (yes, I AM saved)that God will express his understanding of my situation & congratulate me for sticking with Jesus despite the temptation not to.
If there is something 'beyond me' or that He wants me 'to do', thenHe can tell me about it when He sees me in person after my death. I am sure that at that point He will enable me to fulfill whatever his plans are for me.
I told you before, I am resistant to change & that included 'transformation' & messing around with my head. I do not know what 'love' is, I have never experienced it. I do not think that is such a bad thing. If I were sitting here & I had no legs, would you challenge me to a race? Same idea.
Devin,
DeleteReally, there's not much more I can say, other than to pray for you. God DOES command you to love him with all your heart and soul and the receiving of His love for you is what enables you to love. The transformation of which I speak is much bigger than anything you're relating to -- again, my focus here is not the issue of homosexuality -- and the whole key to your life being whole and blessed is to know the love of God, to be able to love Him back, and free to love others as yourself. There is no "salvation" apart from that love, and that, again, is the greatest concern I have for you. If others want to dialog further with you here, that's fine, of course, and as always, I appreciate you being so open and honest. I sincerely hope and pray that you can know the incredible love that God has for you and that it would awaken the fountains of love in your own life -- in this life.
Jesus never said simply "Do not judge", rather, "Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment."
DeleteAnd Paul, in regards to sexual immorality said: "Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, then, matters pertaining to this life!"
Thus Christians are commanded specifically to judge behavior of those who claim to be Christians. The people outside are already under God's judgment.
Here's the summation: if you stand for the absolute truth and morality of the Bible: you are, in the world's eyes: a bigot. Much of the world *despises* the idea of a Holy & Sovereign GOD "Who makes & upholds the Laws governing behavior". Man wants to "be his own god." Morality & Sovereignty is the VERY HEART of the conflict between fallen Man and GOD. - JESUS ALONE provides the Way to overcome this conflict by way of mercy, love, grace, pardon, forgiveness, ... and transformation from within. NOT simply Laws. ... transformation and the gift of The Holy Spirit.
ReplyDeleteThanks for your insights, Dr.Brown. as Christians, we all have to take our share of abuse from the world and those who yet walk in darkness and contempt for Truth.
Count it all joy when you are persecuted for Christ's namesake. It's a sure sign that you're walking the straight and narrow when the opposition is vocal and numerous. Keep walking that path and being directly in the line of fire, because the shield of faith quenches all the fiery darts of the enemy.
ReplyDeleteGod bless.
To Josh:
ReplyDeleteQuite bluntly, there are some people that God does not want, and that is His prerogative! If that breaks your heart and leaves you feeling dejected, then maybe there is hope for you — but if it makes you angry, well, guess what? That means that you think that your thinking is superior to God’s. It is your superior attitude that has gotten you rejected. Try humbling yourself for a change!
To Dr. Michael Brown, my Brother in Christ:
True Christians are going to be all but exterminated, and are in an ever decreasing minority, and are the object of the hatred of this world, because of its hatred for God. Yahshua said before his death, as is recorded in the Gospels, that the days of destruction and slaughter that are now is looming on the horizon, will be the most terrible days that this earth has ever witnessed, or ever will, but, ". . . for the sake of the elect, those days will be cut short."
May God Bless you for all the work you do for His Glory! Amen.
To Josh again:
Stop listening to pie in the sky liars! If you ain’t going to believe what Yahshua said, then stop pretending to be a believer.
One comment on the Day of Silence. It was started after I was active in the LGBT communities but it was my understanding early on that the point of the silence was to show what it would be like if there we did not exist. Which in itself is harmless enough and shouldn't offend even the opposition. That it has become politicized and alternative opinions are not allowed is sad and a self-defeating move on the part of the organizers. Without dialogue nothing will ever be accomplished.
ReplyDeleteSome Christians far too easily fall back on the "Jesus said we would be persecuted". It is imperative that one looks to see if the negative reaction being received is because of Jesus or because of very human rudeness, disrespect and yes even hate. I'm not pointing to anything I've read here but it can become a source of pride and actually bragged about. It doesn't take a theologian to see the flaw in that. Before I run on for pages I'll stop :)
Dave, personally, I have no persecution complex at all, and I'm sensitive to the point you make, but when I interact graciously and face to face with the LGBT community, when I reach out for dialog, when I explain my views with as much compassion as possible -- sometimes with tears of love for those I'm speaking to -- and I still get blasted in the crudest and ugliest terms, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what's taking place. It is opposition because of our Jesus-based position.
ReplyDeleteBigot: a person who has strong, unreasonable beliefs and who thinks that anyone who does not have the same beliefs is wrong
ReplyDeletehttp://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/bigot?q=bigot
Bigot: a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bigot?s=t
I am a bigot.